Babystay
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- Nikola T.
- Admiral
- Prispevkov: 5394
- Pridružen: Ne Nov 29, 2009 21:12
- Kraj: Lj.-Trzin-Izola-Devin
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Re: Babystay
Poglej dobro in premisli. Jambor napneš z zadnjo pripono, da se ti jambor ukrivi nazaj. Takrat bo naredil v prijemališču prednje, lok in na to ukrivljenost nato poštelaš stranske pripone. Tvoji križi imajo zelo majhen kot proti krmi in bi morala biti v stranskih priponah izjemno velika sila, da bi lahko zgolj z njimi dosegel in obdržal ukrivljenost jambora.
Zategni zadnjo pripono.
Poštelaj stranske zajle tako, da bodo napete z neko smerno silo. To se da zelo lepo narediti na roke. Ali je dovolj napeto boš videl ob prvem orcanju. Če bodo stranske zajle premalo napete bodo ob orcanju popuščene tako, da boš to lahko opazil že na oko. To pomeni, da jih moraš napeti z višjo silo, obe strani enako, da ne podreš simetrije.
Nič ne spreminjaj prednje pripone!
Če želiš, da ti jambor bolj visi nazaj ga pomakni v ležišču malo naprej kot si to že naredil in sam ugotovil ampak doklert ne dosežeš prej opisanega jaz ne bi ker zna biti potem krmna zajla prekratka.
Naredi kot sem rekel in ne boš nič falil.
Za te zadeve absolutno ne potrebuješ nobenega mojstra, to naredi sam.
Zategni zadnjo pripono.
Poštelaj stranske zajle tako, da bodo napete z neko smerno silo. To se da zelo lepo narediti na roke. Ali je dovolj napeto boš videl ob prvem orcanju. Če bodo stranske zajle premalo napete bodo ob orcanju popuščene tako, da boš to lahko opazil že na oko. To pomeni, da jih moraš napeti z višjo silo, obe strani enako, da ne podreš simetrije.
Nič ne spreminjaj prednje pripone!
Če želiš, da ti jambor bolj visi nazaj ga pomakni v ležišču malo naprej kot si to že naredil in sam ugotovil ampak doklert ne dosežeš prej opisanega jaz ne bi ker zna biti potem krmna zajla prekratka.
Naredi kot sem rekel in ne boš nič falil.
Za te zadeve absolutno ne potrebuješ nobenega mojstra, to naredi sam.
Re: Babystay
Ok hvala. To mi samo ni jasno ko si napisal da bo krmna zajla prekratka. Krmna zajla se pri meni štela s škoto. Kako bo potem prekratka?
Re: Babystay
Nekatere barke nimajo škote za šponat zadnjo pripono.Zakaj pa rabiš trebuh?Moja vsaj ma raj da ni trebuha.
Re: Babystay
Zaradi varnosti. Da se na valovih trebuh ne obrne nazaj. Takrat spustijo spodnje pripone in je lahko piz...Če ima trebuh je jambor prednapet. Če je jambor raven tudi če so zajle fejst napete ni tako varno kot s trebuhom.
Re: Babystay
Hm,ampak jaz pa imam babystej fiksen inni moteč za prelet genove..Barka je sas vektor 36.Tudi sem bil že večkrat v težkem morju..morda pa spodaj ojačaš vpetje in narediš nekaj fiksnega..
- Nikola T.
- Admiral
- Prispevkov: 5394
- Pridružen: Ne Nov 29, 2009 21:12
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Re: Babystay
Napaka.... hotel sem reči PREDOLGA!!
Re: Babystay
Nikola T. napisal/-a:Zateguje se po potrebi in ne na podlagi dimenzije. Z dimenzijo pletenice je določena le zgornja meja obremenitve.
Jaz sem 20 let zategoval po navodilih proizvajalca in ne po potrebi. Letno sem postavil več kot 100 jamborjav.
Pletenice se zateguje na 15 do 20% predvidene sile zloma ali vtrganja pletenice. Če je manj zategnjena, dobiš klobaso pri obremenitvi, če bo več, lahko nepopravno poškoduješ pletenico ob obremenitvi, ker lahko presežeš mejo elastičnosti.
Za najbolj pogosto uporabljeno 19 žično pletenico fi 6 je sila vtrganja 31 kN, kar nanese, da jo je potrebno našponat na 4,6 - 6,2 kN.
Za to ne potrebuješ nobenih priprav ampak samo meter. Seveda sam nisem več uporabljal metra, ker s časom dobiš občutek, ki se ne zmoti za več kot 2%. Da ne pišem postopka, je to lepo razloženo od 31. strani dalje:
https://support.seldenmast.com/files/15 ... -540-E.pdf
Omas
Glede na to, da imaš nove pletenice, lahko še vedno popustiš vse in greš po navodilih od začetka.
- Nikola T.
- Admiral
- Prispevkov: 5394
- Pridružen: Ne Nov 29, 2009 21:12
- Kraj: Lj.-Trzin-Izola-Devin
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Re: Babystay
S prijateljem sem bil ta teden pri Lazarju glede jambora za novo 18m barko.
Bavarko imaš morda prešo?
Do katerega fija še lahko zaprešaš?
Prosim te še za kontakt na ZS.
LP in hvala
Bavarko imaš morda prešo?
Do katerega fija še lahko zaprešaš?
Prosim te še za kontakt na ZS.
LP in hvala
Re: Babystay
Hvala Bavarko za navodila od Seldna. Sem našel še eno stran z navodili za moj rig - dve nadkrižni in dve podkrižni priponi. Pri tem rigu je treba zgornje pripone še bolj pritegnit kot pri drugih variantah vpetja. Na 25% pretržne sile.
Tu lepo piše:
Setting up a fractional rig with single, aft-swept spreaders
Widely used on smaller cruisers and cruiser/racers, this configuration needs a very different approach from an in-line masthead rig
Step 1: Get the mast upright athwartships
This stage is the same as with a masthead rig.
Step 2: Set the rake
Fractional rigs often need more rake than a masthead equivalent. Anything up to 2° is the norm. (30ft boat - 30cm)
This time, however, rake is set by the forestay and cap shrouds rather than the forestay and backstay.
With a swept-spreader fractional rig it’s the cap shrouds, not the backstay, that stop the mast moving forward. They provide both fore-and-aft and lateral support, so they’re doing two jobs.
The backstay’s principal role is to control the topmast and mast-bend. Because it’s above the point where the forestay joins the mast, it’s not pulling directly against the forestay and therefore has less effect on forestay tension. How much it pulls against the forestay depends on factors including the height of the topmast, the stiffness of the mast section and the tension of the lower shrouds (which determine the bend).
Step 3: Tighten the cap shrouds
With the mast upright laterally and the rake set, it’s time to start tensioning the cap shrouds.
Forestay tension is achieved primarily through the caps, and because they’re swept back at such a shallow angle they need to be seriously tight.
Their maximum tension is 25% of breaking load, but it’s best not to tension them all the way in one go because that would result in a very bent mast: tensioning the caps pushes the spreaders, and therefore the middle of the mast, forward.
Start by taking them to about 15% of breaking load, then tighten the lowers to pull the middle of the mast back so it’s straight.
This is how the swept-spreader fractional rig works: the caps and lowers are working against each other, caps pushing and lowers pulling, to stabilise the middle of the mast. Sight up the mast when it’s straight to check for lateral deflection, correcting it with the lowers.
With a flexible mast you might need to repeat the process, taking the caps to 20% before tensioning the lowers again.
Otherwise go straight to the next stage, which is to pull on the backstay.
Since the backstays on fractional rigs often have cascade purchases at the bottom you can’t measure the tension by stretch as you can with wire, so you have to do this by feel: pull it tight, but don’t go mad.
Tensioning the backstay bends the mast and therefore shortens the distance from the hounds (where the caps join) to the deck. This loosens the caps, so it’s easier to tension them back to the 20% mark.
When you let the backstay off, the caps will tension again and should be at about 25% of breaking load – but no more.
Step 4: Set the pre-bend
Pre-bend is the fore-and-aft bend in the mast of a fractional rig before the backstay is tensioned.
Take a few turns on the lowers to achieve the right amount of pre-bend. It should be more than with an in-line masthead rig, but a mast should never bend to more than 2% of the height of the foretriangle even with the backstay tensioned (that’s about 180mm in 9m, or 7in in 30ft).
Check to see how far the mast bends with a tight backstay. The optimum bend will often be determined by the cut of the mainsail, or recommended by the sailmaker or class association.
Pre-bend is vital because most fractional rigs don’t have forward lowers or a babystay, so if the mast were to bend aft in the middle (inverted bend) it could collapse.
In fresh conditions, especially under spinnaker, it’s a wise precaution never to release the backstay completely. That stops the upper section of the mast being pulled too far forward.
Step 5: Check the rig under sail
The caps should be tighter than with a masthead rig, with no significant slack on the leeward side when the boat’s hard on the wind and heeling 15-20°.
If the static tension is up to 25% but the leeward cap is always slack, the boat might be bending. That’s a topic beyond the scope of this article!
Sight up the mast to check the bend both fore-and-aft and athwartships, adjusting the lowers as necessary.
Tu lepo piše:
Setting up a fractional rig with single, aft-swept spreaders
Widely used on smaller cruisers and cruiser/racers, this configuration needs a very different approach from an in-line masthead rig
Step 1: Get the mast upright athwartships
This stage is the same as with a masthead rig.
Step 2: Set the rake
Fractional rigs often need more rake than a masthead equivalent. Anything up to 2° is the norm. (30ft boat - 30cm)
This time, however, rake is set by the forestay and cap shrouds rather than the forestay and backstay.
With a swept-spreader fractional rig it’s the cap shrouds, not the backstay, that stop the mast moving forward. They provide both fore-and-aft and lateral support, so they’re doing two jobs.
The backstay’s principal role is to control the topmast and mast-bend. Because it’s above the point where the forestay joins the mast, it’s not pulling directly against the forestay and therefore has less effect on forestay tension. How much it pulls against the forestay depends on factors including the height of the topmast, the stiffness of the mast section and the tension of the lower shrouds (which determine the bend).
Step 3: Tighten the cap shrouds
With the mast upright laterally and the rake set, it’s time to start tensioning the cap shrouds.
Forestay tension is achieved primarily through the caps, and because they’re swept back at such a shallow angle they need to be seriously tight.
Their maximum tension is 25% of breaking load, but it’s best not to tension them all the way in one go because that would result in a very bent mast: tensioning the caps pushes the spreaders, and therefore the middle of the mast, forward.
Start by taking them to about 15% of breaking load, then tighten the lowers to pull the middle of the mast back so it’s straight.
This is how the swept-spreader fractional rig works: the caps and lowers are working against each other, caps pushing and lowers pulling, to stabilise the middle of the mast. Sight up the mast when it’s straight to check for lateral deflection, correcting it with the lowers.
With a flexible mast you might need to repeat the process, taking the caps to 20% before tensioning the lowers again.
Otherwise go straight to the next stage, which is to pull on the backstay.
Since the backstays on fractional rigs often have cascade purchases at the bottom you can’t measure the tension by stretch as you can with wire, so you have to do this by feel: pull it tight, but don’t go mad.
Tensioning the backstay bends the mast and therefore shortens the distance from the hounds (where the caps join) to the deck. This loosens the caps, so it’s easier to tension them back to the 20% mark.
When you let the backstay off, the caps will tension again and should be at about 25% of breaking load – but no more.
Step 4: Set the pre-bend
Pre-bend is the fore-and-aft bend in the mast of a fractional rig before the backstay is tensioned.
Take a few turns on the lowers to achieve the right amount of pre-bend. It should be more than with an in-line masthead rig, but a mast should never bend to more than 2% of the height of the foretriangle even with the backstay tensioned (that’s about 180mm in 9m, or 7in in 30ft).
Check to see how far the mast bends with a tight backstay. The optimum bend will often be determined by the cut of the mainsail, or recommended by the sailmaker or class association.
Pre-bend is vital because most fractional rigs don’t have forward lowers or a babystay, so if the mast were to bend aft in the middle (inverted bend) it could collapse.
In fresh conditions, especially under spinnaker, it’s a wise precaution never to release the backstay completely. That stops the upper section of the mast being pulled too far forward.
Step 5: Check the rig under sail
The caps should be tighter than with a masthead rig, with no significant slack on the leeward side when the boat’s hard on the wind and heeling 15-20°.
If the static tension is up to 25% but the leeward cap is always slack, the boat might be bending. That’s a topic beyond the scope of this article!
Sight up the mast to check the bend both fore-and-aft and athwartships, adjusting the lowers as necessary.
Re: Babystay
00
Re: Babystay
Nikola T. napisal/-a:S prijateljem sem bil ta teden pri Lazarju glede jambora za novo 18m barko.
Bavarko imaš morda prešo?
Do katerega fija še lahko zaprešaš?
Prosim te še za kontakt na ZS.
LP in hvala
Jaz nisem več v tem poslu zadnjih 5 let.
Če se ne motim ima Lazar ročno prešo do fi 10.
električno prešo na obali do fi 12 ima Nautic service. Morda celo 14 ali več, nisem siguren.Glede terminalov pa raje pokliči, še bolje, če imaš svoje.
Preša je taka:
https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1s0x ... fcgLZeon80
Re: Babystay
omas napisal/-a:Hvala Bavarko za navodila od Seldna. Sem našel še eno stran z navodili za moj rig - dve nadkrižni in dve podkrižni priponi. Pri tem rigu je treba zgornje pripone še bolj pritegnit kot pri drugih variantah vpetja. Na 25% pretržne sile.
Sam nisem nikoli nategnil več kot 20%, že tu je občutek kar hud na francozu. Misliš, da bo kaj popustilo.
Če se boš lotil toliko, morda prej razstavi šponarje, očisti in namaži s kakšno mastjo. Če zaribajo pri takih silah je šele sranje.
Vsekakor po pameti.
Re: Babystay
Po kolikih letih je smiselno menjati pripone, čeprav te še ne zgledajo nič obrabljene? Barka je letnik 1997.
- Nikola T.
- Admiral
- Prispevkov: 5394
- Pridružen: Ne Nov 29, 2009 21:12
- Kraj: Lj.-Trzin-Izola-Devin
- Kontakt:
Re: Babystay
Menjaš jih po potrebi in glede na stanje. Če pa imaš barko kasko zavarovano pa za rigging velja, da mora biti pregledan in zamenjane zajle na 15 let (Nisem čisto siguren. Lahko, da je tudi na 20 let). Zamenjal sem jih po 16 letih, ker imam kasko zavarovano vključno za rigging in je bila to sedaj zadnja obnova v moji režiji.Grega295 napisal/-a:Po kolikih letih je smiselno menjati pripone, čeprav te še ne zgledajo nič obrabljene? Barka je letnik 1997.
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